‘Nowadays Tatarstan is setting pace for the approach of the government to the role of UNESCO’

'It seems there was not cooperation'

Why was the licence of the Russian committee of ICOMOS revoked in 2014?

They had their own reasons. They said there was not any cooperation, we did not visit their events, etc. I don't know. It seems there was not their cooperation.

Has Aleksander Kudryavtsev been chosen the president of the Russian committee?

He is a former rector of the Moscow Architectural Institute. Then he was the president of the Academy of Architecture and Construction Sciences, so now he is its vice-president. He chaired the temporary organising committee. We elected him during the reorganisation. And now he has been elected president.

Could you explain to our reader what ICOMOS is and how Tatarstan works with the organisation?

The thing is that ICOMOS is an international organisation that unites many specialists. Its activity is huge. In 1998, we created a regional office in Tatarstan because we needed to cooperate with UNESCO in order to include the sites of Tatarstan in the list of World Heritage Sites. Our regional branch unites first-class specialists – historians, architects, archaeologists, restorers, multi-discipline experts in conservation of cultural heritage. In fact, a UNESCO department was created at that time in order to speak the same language with ICOMOS.

Then we started to work on the inclusion of the Kazan Kremlin in the list of the World Heritage Sites. We enlisted it in 2000. It is mainly the result of the work of both the experts and country, it would be impossible to do it without them. Then we reoriented to Bolgar – from a historical and architectural monument to the historical and archaeological one.

Aleksander Kudryavtsev is a former rector of the Moscow Architectural Institute. Photo: vm.ru

What is more, there are several issues that always arise in the Convention Concerning the Protection of the World's Cultural and Natural Heritage because the Soviet Union ratified it in 1988, and it was necessary to correspond to all these documents, including the work of the ICOMOS experts in Tatarstan and Russian was mainly connected with presentation of sites.

In 2013, we managed to prove the remarkable universal value of the Bolgarian Historical and Archaeological Complex. It became its name. Why? Because we needed to demonstrate the history of this cultural region and prove its illustrious universal value at world level. It was proved. Moreover, the Convention has 5 criteria, and both the Kremlin and Bolgar accorded with them. International experts assess, while we prepare explanations that the site has not only regional and federal importance but also the universal one. It was proved in 2013 in the capital of Cambodia Phnom Penh, and in 2014, the Bolgarian Historical and Archaeological Complex was included in the list of the World Heritage Sites.

A great job was done on the definition of the criteria because, initially, ICOMOS recommended it on the third criterion as an indicator of the Bolgar-Tatar civilisation. But in the course of the work we reached the second criterion to illustrate not only a 500-year-old history of this region, that is to say, when the city of Bolgar existed, but also the 1,500-year-old one because it has monuments connected with the Imenkovo Culture. These are the monuments that demonstrate the era of the Migration Period. Scientists are still arguing who the Imenkovo people are. From one point of view, they are Turkic. Somebody says they are Ugric. Another group opines they are Balts. According to another version, they are sedentary Slavs. What is more, we show not only a period from the 5 ^th to the 7^th centuries. We managed to put an illustrative example of the settlement process when there was a transfer from nomadism to a sedentary lifestyle in Bolgar. Then the Muslim civilisation appeared when in 922 Ibn Fadlan's embassy came here. In the 10-15^th centuries, a state called Volga Bolgaria existed. Later the Golden Horde appeared. The 15-16^th centuries were the period of the Khanate of Kazan when the city lost its importance and the centre moved to Kazan. But it continued its existence as a pilgrimage site. Then we switched to the 18^th century when monasteries arose and to the 19^th. In other words, there is a 1,500-year-old history.

'In 2013, we managed to prove the remarkable universal value of the Bolgarian Historical and Archaeological Complex.' Photo: trip-guide.ru

Moreover, we managed to prove it is a place where Islam was adopted. It has a global meaning for this region and Eurasia, in general, because Islam started to expand from this place. It is the second criterion (Editor's Note: on the inclusion in the list of the World Heritage Sites).

Its authenticity is the third criterion, in other words, its state. According to their definition, it's called authenticity, and we proved it. There was done a huge job connected with not only digs but also a use of non-destructive methods like ground-penetrating radars, geophysical devices, etc.

Cohesiveness is the fourth criterion. When the issue on the Bolgarian Historical and Archaeological Complex was considered in Cambodia, speakers and representatives of ICOMOS were asked about the number of discoveries. They did not answer, but I replied that only 3% of the city were explored by 2013. In other words, its cohesiveness accounts for 97%.

The fifth criterion is found in the convention – we managed to create a management plan on the Bolgarian Historical and Archaeological Complex. It was approved by the International Committee of ICOMOS. And next week in Turkey there will be the 40 ^th session of the committee where the complex will be reviewed as a report and management plan.

About the inclusion of Sviyazhsk to the UNESCO list: 'We are on the last lap, which, to tell the truth, is passing long'

In fact, it turned out we take the third position concerning the number of members. We have 30 ICOMOS members in Tatarstan. Moscow takes the lead – it has about 100 people, Petersburg has over 60, and we are the third. Some regions have 3, 4-5 people. For example, Bashkortostan has 4 members. Anyway the number is to grow.

The Assumption Cathedral in Sviyazhsk was bid to be included in the list of the World Heritage Sites as early as 1998. Photo: Mikhail Kozlovsky

We participate in the work of the UNESCO sessions. We actively cooperate with the very International Committee of ICOMOS. But we have questions. So, while preparing Bolgar, we had to actively cooperate with the very International Committee because they don't invite to their meetings, that is to say, they have their own evaluation system that takes 1-2 years. They recruit specialists, they call it a panel, but don't invite the participating country. This topic was discussed at a meeting of the committee – ICOMOS is to be a transparent organisation, and the participating country should be invited to solve different problems from the point of view of real history that not all people know, not Eurocentrism. We know our history, archaeology, urban engineering more than just experts. This is why ICOMOS exists.

Will the Assumption Cathedral in Sviyazhsk be on the list of the World Heritage Sites?

It was bid as early as 1998 as well as the Kazan Kremlin and Bolgar. Now the work on the inclusion of this site is in the process: a nomination in 6 books is prepared, a huge job was done.

'We do our job and do it well even if there is no accreditation'

You said you are going to report on Bolgar in Turkey. When will it take place?

From 10 to 20 July. We got a project from this report. It was highly estimated by the U.S., Azerbaijan, England.

Is anybody from the international organisation expected to visit Tatarstan?

A visit to Sviyazhsk within the scope of a technical mission is planned in August. Moreover, we plan a big conference in September. The Kazan State University of Culture and Arts, Kazan Federal University under the aegis of Mintimer Shaimiev and President of our republic will organise it. Conservation of Humankind as an Imperative of Sustainable Event is the topic of the conference.

I enumerate only what will take place in August and September. The Ministry of Culture of Russia has its own programme: a conference dedicated to UNESCO, which will celebrate its 70 ^th anniversary, will be held at the end of the year.

There are many events, and they demonstrate the role of Tatarstan in the cooperation with both UNESCO and the Russian Federation in this process.

What is the goal of the visit to Sviyazhsk?

They accomplish a technical mission in order to see on the spot whether there are corresponding foundations, and only then they will prepare their report to review it on a session of the special panel. It is likely to take place in Paris because the ICOMOS headquarters is in Paris, but the place can change.

Who is the president of ICOMOS now?

Gustavo Araoz. He came here last year, visited a congress of restorers and participated in the first ICOMOS session that was in Kazan. Then the reorganisation of ICOMOS in the Russian Federation, in general, began. A 'road map' was introduced at the meeting of the ICOMOS members organised within the scope of the International Congress of Restorers. The temporary organising committee was chosen at that time. The uneasy accreditation process of the Russian ICOMOS committee is taking place.

Can the accreditation of the Russian committee be called an official return to the international organisation?

Yes, when it gets its accreditation. We do our job and do it well even if there is no accreditation, you know. It is a diplomatic process more. And if we take into account that it coincided with the situation when the West doesn't like us, roughly speaking. Nevertheless, if we pay attention to it and do nothing, there will be no result. Our work and our concrete actions, our professionalism is the most important thing.