John Perkins: 'I do not believe that there is some overarching conspiracy to take over the world'

'After the book was published different companies tried to sue me'

In your book, you give an insider view of the economic colonization of Third World countries. Have the mechanisms changed? Are they the same now?

One of the other reasons why I wrote a new book it's because in the last couple of years the things have become much worse. The economic hit man system that I described in the original book has spread from the developing countries in the United States, Europe, Russia, the rest of the world. It's really become much more prevalent everywhere. At the same time, people around the world are waking up, it's a consciousness revolution. People everywhere are beginning to understand the this is a fail system. The glaciers are melting, the oceans are rising. Very small percentage of the world's population enjoys a great deal of wealth, we know that 62 individuals. Half the world is living in poverty, they are actually starving. That's nowadays model. It's failure, so we must change it. People around the world basically they are setting in, making the economic hit man system even stronger and worse. At the same time, people around the world are waking up to the fact that we must change. This significant thing has happened in the last twelve years or so, basically, since the turn of the centuries, 2000.

How autobiographical is the book? How did it turn out that the book was eventually published since the structures you wrote about are so powerful. Were there some threats or some incidents after the book was published?

It is completely autobiographical, my story. In the new book I wrote how the original book was rejected by 39 publishers. Then I was published by a small firm in San Francisco and became popular very quickly. After the book was published different companies took cooperation, tried to sue me, linguistics. I believe I was poisoned. We never able to determine whether it was poison or not, but I was supposed to speak in the United Nations and I was suddenly tremendous internal bleeding and rushed to the hospital. Under suspicious circumstances, I had lunch, I think they poisoned me. It is described in details in the new book.

The economic hit man system that I described in the original book has spread from the developing countries in the United States, Europe, Russia, the rest of the world. It's really become much more prevalent everywhere. Photo: velykoross.ru

'I do not believe that there is some overarching conspiracy to take over the world'

Do you believe in the struggle of the family clans — the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers? What companies and transnational companies they include?

These families are certainly involved and own big companies. They are not the only ones involved. I think this tremendous power — pension funds, Hadge Funs, Wall Street — are those families historically have a great deal of power. There are a lot of people with a lot of power. All the big cooperations, people who have a lot of money. But I think, we all need to recognize that ultimately it's we, the people, we in the U.S., in Russia, all around the world, have the power. Because cooperations are around the world. And the cooperations depend on you and me, you, the readers, us, to buy the different services, to work for them, to invests in them, to manage them, to support them, to the government policies. So, I think, ultimately we all have to take responsibility. It gives me a great hope. It's we, the people, have a tremendous a lot of power. Especially today, with the Internet, Facebook and social networking circles, we have tremendously a lot of power. It's easy to always blame somebody else, some conspiracy of the very wealthy. The very wealthy have a great deal of power, it's no question.

But it's only because we allow them to, we continue to buy from that companies and make them profitable. So, it's time for everyone of us made a decision that we won't buy from many companies until they are committed to creating a Live Economy. We will only buy from the companies that are committed to creating a Live Economy, a new system. We should send e-mails every week. Pick a company that you don't like, that could be Shevron, Wallmarth, any company. And send them an e-mail and say — I like your products but I won't buy them anymore until you stop polluting air zone or until you pay a worker the fair wage. Also, send to your all networking social circles and ask everybody to send all their all social networking circles and to ask everybody to send these e-mails to the companies. They'll have to listen. They depend on us, we support them. So, it's we, the people, who have to take the responsibility, not the families of the Rockefellers or the Rothschilds, or everybody else but to recognize that we are the part of that system, all of us.

People talk a lot about some influential orders from Vatican, about Masonry. How do you treat such conspiracy?

I have never encountered these forces in my experience. There are plenty of conspiracies, including ones that the CIA admits to on its website such as its involvement in some of the coups against heads of state of countries. But I do not believe that there is some overarching conspiracy to take over the world.

What global forces exist today in the world?

Many. The strongest are those that represent corporate power around the globe.

But that all changed in 1976 with Milton Friedman, the Nobel Prizer in Economics, who said among other things that the only responsibility of corporations is to maximize profits regardless the social environmental costs. Photo: macrobusiness.com.au

'We've created capitalism that I like call predatory capitalism'

How do you see the role of the USA in the future world?

The United States is still a world leader and we need to do a much better job in leading. I think when in 1991, basically with the end of the Soviet Union, the U.S. was in a position to show the world that it could create capitalism and democracy. We did not do that. We've created capitalism that I like call predatory capitalism, that is based on maximizing profits regardless the social environmental costs. Prior to that, when I was in business school, I was taught that good corporation should also to be a good citizen, serve a public interest as well as making the return to the investors. But that all changed in 1976 with Milton Friedman, the Nobel Prizer in Economics, who said among other things that the only responsibility of corporations is to maximize profits regardless the social environmental costs. So, at the time when the Soviet Union dissolved in 1990s, the corporations and the U.S. government were taking a stand that profit was everything.

It was a huge mistake and caused a lot of problems. Now we are in the time when the U.S. still runs the world as the leader, but certainly Russia is emerging as a very strong force, China is emerging as an extremely strong force and so the role of the USA has been diminished. Yet the corporations still have a huge impact not just in the U.S. but also in China, Russia and throughout the whole world. They are really running things today.

I think it is more important to say what is the role of people in the world in the future. We all need to come together. We need to recognize that really there are no borders. The idea of Russia, of the U.S., Canada, Norway is just to perceive reality, their ideas. When enough people accept these ideas and qualify them as a law, it becomes fact, objective reality. Then we establish these ideas that Russia has such an ideology opposed the American ideology, so we get to compete. But it's time now that we all recognize that everyone of us live on a fragile space station, the Earth, there are no shuttles. None of us can get off, when a space station has disaster. We need to come together and figure out what to do to create a Live Economy, an economy that is self-renewal recourse. We can all live all together in prosper in our own ways.

Some people say that now the closing of the globalization project is taking place. Is it true?

I tried to define globalization, you know, I mean, you are in Russia, I am in the U.S., we are talking on the telephone. We have an amazing communication. That's called globalization. In fact, we can travel from the U.S. to Russia in very short period of time. That's globalization. All the products that come from Russia, China, India — it's globalization and we have it. I think the real question is what do we do about? As long as we have an attitude that we have to fight each other. As long as we believe in that we are in trouble. So, I think, a modern form of globalization will be when we understand that all live a on a tiny globe. Whether the Russians, the Chinese, Indians, Americans, we have come together to create a better system on that globe, viable for children, grandchildren. Our grandchildren will inherit and look back with thankness that we've created a better system. That will be the real globalization and it's very very necessary that we all come together.

If I decide that I don't like this item of Nike or Adidas or some of the company, I don't like the way that they are paying their workers in Indonesia, for example. You can send them an email and say why you don't buy from them and ask all friends in social networking circles also to send them emails. That's very effective. Photo: abc.net.au

'This economic system threatens all of us'

Is there a chance for the national states to survive in the globalization process? Or is it a relic of the industrial age?

Well, I think, it is very important that cultures survive, languages survive. Just let's take our two countries — Russia and the U.S. Russia has wonderful, incredible tradition, culture. The Russian language is very rich. And the U.S. has a wonderful culture and tradition and English is very rich also. These two languages are quite different expressed in their ways. It's important that we keep those things — music, dances, poetry, literature, languages. And the other countries also. But, at the same time, we recognize that we all share common interests and that is to survive in prosper on a very tiny fragile planet, space station. So, I think, it is good that we keep cultures, that we keep traditions, the various nations. We not look at ourselves as nations that are competing and war with each other, whose ideologies clash. It is wrong from many different ideas, ideologies, and philosophies. We must all understand that we need to come together and not fight over the borders, not, say, is Ukraine belong to Russia? does it belong to Netherlands? We all belong together. We all part of the same system. It's really important that we look at that.

You know, recently I had a film crew in my home, here in the U.S., from Russia, Moscow. After we had an interview I talked to people of the film crew. They were highly educated and most of them spoke English. You know, when I heard was how ever since the Cold War there was strong theory in Russia of America. Ever since the end of the Soviet Union America has done some pretty bad things around the world, the corporations particularly has exploited the other countries. If the other countries would not give us oil, the resources the corporations wanted, the U.S. sent troops there. The Russian people are very fearful because in Russia there are a lot of resources. At the same time, here, in the U.S., we believe that Russia is bad. Both countries threaten each other. I realized that the economic system threatens all of us. It is really important that we come together and understand that we must create a better global system, an economic system, that educates peace and stops destroying environments and resources. We need to create a system that would work in Russia, as well as in the U.S. and everywhere else.

There is a version that democracy is too expensive political order for the world economy. How do you think — will the world abandon democracy?

Well, it is a very good question. I think that democracy is pretty good for many countries but not for all countries. It's not part of a culture of many countries and their cultures. So, I don't think it's really so much about democracy, it's about a recognition that really economics controls the world more than politics. In some way, we can say the market place is a democracy. Any time anybody buys something in Russia or in the U.S., they are involved in corporations. These corporations really have tremendous power. They influence all the major world governments and people. It's not so much a political question than economic question. By buying something, we are participating in the democratic system in the market place. Corporations only survive and thrive only because we buy their services. We have tremendous power to change corporations. By changing the way we buy things. And by giving the corporations know that. If I decide that I don't like this item of Nike or Adidas or some of the company, I don't like the way that they are paying their workers in Indonesia, for example. You can send them an email and say why you don't buy from them and ask all friends in social networking circles also to send them emails. That's very effective. That's really is a form of democracy in the market place. I suppose to call it informal socialism but I don't really know how mainly it is called. But the fact that we are the people have the power we just have to take it.

We need to move now away from the economy that I call a Death Economy. It's destroying itself, it's consuming itself into extinction. Photo: scientificrussia.ru

We need an economy that is really based on cleaning up pollution

Will the current model of consumerism exist in the future? If no, what will replace it?

If we continue the current consumer model into the future, I don't think the planet will survive as we know it. It's become just too large global warning, the consumerism model. That's probably that I call predatory capitalism — that's the idea that we have to keep consuming and consuming. This model has brought amazing technologies, science, medicine, art, literature, music, the fact that we can talk to each other on this phone — that's part of the system but now gone too far. We have become too consumer-oriented. We need to turn that around and understand that consumerism doesn't make us happy. Even if you look at the U.S., perhaps the wealthiest country in the history of the world, you have counter very poor statistics with huge number of our population in prison, very high suicide rates, the drug addiction rates, the family abuse rates. Even among very prosperous countries statistically we are not the happy country and you could say some things about Russia. The happiness is not defined by consumerism at all. It is destroying the planet. We need to move into a new kind of model that intensifies prosperity. Yes, having sufficiency, food, shelter, but not excessive consumerism — it doesn't bring happiness.

What will be a new driver of the economy?

Again, if we look at a Live Economy, I like to call it 'Live Economy vs Death Economy', we look at economy that is driven by the desire in profitability of cleaning up pollution. For example, hiring companies to mine all the plastic on the oceans and all the petroleum that leaked out of gas stations all over the world and leaked around oil sites. An economy that is really based on cleaning up pollution around the world and also cleaning up destroyed environments. It's an economic development opportunity. It is based on, rather than on consumerism, on finding new methods of transporting ourselves, creating energy, communications, just the other things that does not require the other resources. We could mine recourses that already exist. We are surrounded by amazing resources. Building new houses, not to use new materials but to use materials from old buildings and so on and so forth. That's tremendous opportunities for great creativity here. That is where we need to move now away from the economy that I call a Death Economy. It's destroying itself, it's consuming itself into extinction.

What actually happened in 2008? Was it the beginning of the Great Depression 2.0?

It was an indication that we have created a global economic failure, the Death Economy, and that we must change.

I have a new book, in a less couple of months, called 'The New Confessions of an Economic Hit Man'. I go in this into detail in this book about the strategy for change. I think, really globally we've created a failed economy, a failed global economy and something I call a Death Economy. An economy that is based on a sort of war, warfare and on destroying the earth resources, the very resources the economy depends. The economy, in fact, is killing itself, consuming itself into extinction. We need to turn that around and to create a Live Economy. An economy that is based on cleaning up pollution, regenerating the destroyed environment and new technologies that do not destroy the recourses anymore, that recycle, use the Sun, use air, use new forms of energy, communications, transportation, everything else. We really need to create a new type of economic system that uses itself, a renewal resource. That's true for China Russia, the USA, the whole world. This failed economic system is truly global. These cooperations are highly influenced by and they also influence major world governments including China, Russia, the USA, India, Brazil, just everywhere else.

Will the world abandon the liberal ideas?

I don't have a crystal ball but I hope that we will move into creating a Life Economy.

I think, he has been doing very reasonable job, as a politician. The politicians often have to compromise themselves. I think Putin has given the Russian people a lot of hope, a lot of pride in a way he represents re-emergence of Russia as the world force, the world leader. Photo: kremlin.ru

Putin has given the Russian people a lot of hope

Let's talk about Russia. What do you think about Putin? Can he be considered the West policy conductor or he mounted a challenge to the world system?

I don't really like to involve myself into politics of other countries because I don't know enough about them. As I understand it, Putin is in a very challenging position. The Russian people expect him to be strong, they expect him to stand up to as they see as aggression from the United States. And he recognizes that and, I think, he has been doing very reasonable job, as a politician. The politicians often have to compromise themselves. I think Putin has given the Russian people a lot of hope, a lot of pride in a way he represents re-emergence of Russia as the world force, the world leader. I hope that Mr. Putin is a kind of person who will strive to create a new system in the world and will work with whoever will be the next president they will work together to create this a Live Economy.

What will happen with dollar and oil? What is your outlook for the economy of Russia?

Well, there is no question that we are running out of oil, gas. Russia and the other countries that are dependent on controlling resources, they will start looking the alternatives. Trying to predict the economy of Russia or the U.S. or anywhere else — it's a little crazy at this point, nobody has a crystal ball. I think we are moving very rapidly. One thing that we do know — whetever in Russia or in the U.S. is that we cannot continue to depend on resources that destroy the Earth when we try to extract them from the Earth. So, the resources that Russia has, the natural resources, mining and petroleum exploitation — those days are over. And it's important for Russia to recognize, as well as the U.S., America, Africa, Middle East, that we are to get to move to new era. The companies and the countries will strongly embrace this new recognition, perception that we must move beyond destructive industries. Those companies and those countries will be in the future.

What would you wish the readers of our newspaper?

I have great hope that the world, people across the planet, are waking up to the fact that we need to change, that we've created a system that simply is a failure that it is destroying our environment, that is creating climate change, that's created a lot of hatred and anger between the countries and cultures. And we're waking up to that fact that it doesn't working. That we are living in one space station. So, I would like to suggest to your readers, as well as all my readers around the world, who read everything I write, that we understand that we must come together and we must create a Live Economy, an economy in the political and social system that is based on compassion for each other for all forms on this planet. It's essential that we move out from all paradigms, old way of thinking, that we are in the competitions with each other, and instead understand that we must come together and work together, help each other.